We’ve gotta say we were a bit surprised when a tiny comment we made about Dream Theater last week was perceived as an act of character assassination and prompted a slew of nasty comments from irate fans. One thing’s for sure, those Dream Theater followers sure take their role as defenders of the Dream seriously.
But actually, their sabres were drawn pretty abruptly. We didn’t really insult Dream Theater. All we said was that we were surprised Headbangers Ball viewers voted the band’s video for “Constant Motion” the second best metal video of the year. We were even more shocked that the number one pick was Mushroomhead’s “12 Hundred,” but that’s another argument entirely.
In our post, we pointed out that we “begged to differ” with the viewer’s decision, then we premiered Dream Theater’s new video for “Forsaken” on the blog because we believed strongly that the band’s sizable fanbase wanted to see the clip. Two days later, we debuted the video on Heabangers Ball on MTV2. Pardon our hubris, but we don’t see Fuse, VH1 or BET giving such love to Dream Theater.
Of course, there are two sides to every coin. Dream Theater are obviously ambitious, musically gifted and versed in a variety of styles. They’re tighter than Barbie’s ass and adventurous enough to improvise instead of always following their songs note for note. But that doesn’t mean the “Constant Motion” video was more visually breathtaking than offerings by Mastodon, Machine Head or Down. There’s a clear difference between sight and sound and sometimes the best songs are accompanied by some pretty crappy videos.
Now on to more inflammatory matters. While Dream Theater’s legions obviously covet their favorite band above their own families, there are others who feel the group’s endless soloing is self-indulgent, and that its complex arrangements don’t hold together as well as simple, well-crafted songs. Also, while Dream Theater’s songs obviously contain melodies, some argue that the emphasis on musicianship detracts from the tunefulness of the material. Even some fans of progressive metal groups such as Opeth, Mars Volta, Protest the Hero and System of a Down will argue that there’s a big difference between experimentation and narcissistic showmanship, and that true musical revelation comes from an emphasis on art, not virtuosity.
That said, we’ll continue to support Dream Theater as a valid force in hard rock/metal, however there are certainly plenty of other artists that are just as viable and to disregard bands such as Slayer, Killswitch Engage or Behemoth simply because they may lack Dream Theater’s chops is as narrowminded as writing off Dream Theater as smarty-pants show-offs.
We await your invective.
I love it!! I used to have to look for the most eloquent words and statements to defend the reasons why I love DT so much. All of my fellow hardcore fans have already done it for me. Big ups to you all!! And yes, they dont need tv or radio to support their careers, they just need honesty, hard work, talent, and the rest will follow.
I’ve actually met these guys; they are modest when it comes to their skills. Listen on the albums and you listen on stage and its not the same, they HOLD BACK on the albums!
I’d argue that Dragonforce is full of wankery but not Dream Theater. Some of their best songs are slow one’s, not filled with the ’self-indulgent crap’ that many of you write them off as. If you only listen to 1 song from a band you can’t judge them for their musical notoriety.
Dream Theater is the best band in the world. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you know what I think about this, 4 letters and that´s about it: ENVY. Thank you. (And it goes from gifted-talent, creativeness, intelligence, determination, success, etc….)
System of a Down? Come on, they are about as progressive as a spastic colon. They are a good band but they are not musically diverse enough to even be put in the same category as the great Dream Theater and Opeth. Furthermore, songwriting is the number one emphasis stressed by Petrucci and Portnoy, and musical “showmanship” is expressed primarily in their live performances. I’ve seen them twice and each was one of the best experiences of my life. People that talk down on Dream Theater are jealous that God didn’t grant them the abilities given to them. Grow up people! Just because you’re not that gifted does not mean you have to bash the ones who are. Find what you are good at and if you don’t like DT, then don’t listen to them. They shred because they can, but most important they take pride in their work. I am one of the biggest Opeth and Dream Theater fans around and I take alot of criticism due to closed minded individuals and their general conclusions: having only heard five minutes of one song they didn’t like.
I don’t know why everyone hates on Octavarium. Just because it isn’t as over the top doesn’t mean it isn’t as good as any of their other albums. The title track is one of my favorite Dream Theater songs of all time.
Fact: Dream Theater are an extremely diverse band. The perception that all they do is shred is totally untrue - that’s one part of their music that they’re able to do. From personal experience I think they emphasize songwriting and emotions a lot more than other progressive metal bands do, whilst still being able to outplay all of them. (2)
exactly what I think , anyone who really got to know the band will see it.
but about the video.. it really isn´t good
looks like u guys pissed some peaple off
Hey give the guy a break! This isn’t near as Bullsh** as the 100 Greatest Guitar Players edition of that Rolling Stones put out. Remember that??
Dream Theater is what it is. progressive rock. progressive rock essentially means more than just “radio formatted rock.”
so, take it or leave it.
and why is DT being compared to bands that are not even prog metal…the mars volta is not metal, and system of a down is deffinately not prog. go check out some real prog-porcupine tree, ozric tentacles, cult of luna, etc.
and before you say dream theater is nothing but shred, make sure you check out ALL nine albums because dream theater is diverse as #?%~.
Now just because dream theater has the talent to play difficult solos in their music, is it really reasonable to say that they shouldnt? Should they play music that is less difficult and less fulfilling to them? I say dream theater is amazing the way they are, and if they feel the need to be virtuoso at what they do, then so be it.
First off, how can a musician who releases records state that they write music for themselves? If that’s the case, keep it to yourself and don’t record or release. By recording and releasing a record, you’re sharing it with the public and therefore doing it for others.
Secondly, all art is subjective be it sculpture, paiting, music, or any other form of it. “Progressive Genius or Self-Indulgent Crap?” How about a third option - it’s what I like. Like most musicians, I’m completely sick to death of people’s necessity to apply some meaningless nomenclature upon all types of music. You know why I hate MTV (or any other “music” channel for that matter)? It’s got to fit into your neat little box; label it and throw it up on a shelf and MAYBE take it down for your specialty shows like HBB or the late YO!! MTV Raps. Segregate your prog from your pop from your new-age from your rap etc. For once, I’d love to see some outlet that would play Dream Theater then Yanni then Slayer then the Beatles then Sinatra then Beethoven… You get the point.
I would love to one day see the music industry stop trying to tell us what we want and what we should see and what we should think about art. You shouldn’t think about the art you hear or see or feel or taste or touch or smell. Leave that to the artist.
Give us the music, and try to imagine that maybe we have an idea of what we like instead of filtering it for us.
I would think that people who write music do it for themselves, which technically makes ALL music “self-indulgent”. If rappers want to rap, they do. If rockers want to rock, they do. Music is about expressing YOURSELF. If other people like it, that’s cool, too, but really, most artist make the music that THEY want to make. It’s self-indulgent by nature. Not only that, but being a fan of music is self-indulgent as well. Do we listen to songs that we don’t like? Of course not. If you ask me, to call any music “self-indulgent crap” isn’t really an insult. “Crap” is a subjective term. “Self-indulgent” is just the truth. Nobody wants to have ANYTHING that they don’t enjoy, so if you ask me, LIFE is self-indulgent.
That said, I absolutely love Dream Theater. To hear their music is to know that they have massive talent, and that’s something I totally respect. I think they combine all of the elements of music that I love in a masterful way. They write melodic pieces, grooving riffs, and even blistering solos, but all in a way that I enjoy. It just soothes my musical beast. It is one of my favorite musical indulgences.
I have to agree, and yet disagree. Dream Theater is one of my very favorite bands… but I’ve never enjoyed their music videos… they’re all pretty bad in my opinion. The argument about “so much soloing is not as good as a simple, solid song” is just ridiculous, because having too much soloing/virtuosity or having too much simplicity can get boring either way you look at it. I think a mixture of both is best… However, sitting down and just listening to one band all day is boring, no matter if its your favorite band or not; thus, if you get tired of the soloing and virtuosity, switch to something else for a while. Once you get tired of simple, reserved songs, switch back… and then theres always the bands that are somewhere in between.
Anyway, I think Dream Theater is an awesome band… but they probably shouldn’t make music videos. As much as anyone can say their music is “self-indulgent crap,” one could say that simple, well-crafted songs are just the work of lesser musicians. In the end, its all %%$?$%##. I don’t see why any band with such virtuosic ability SHOULD write nothing but simple songs, because it would be an insult to their years of honing their talent. I do think, though, that they should write a few more straightforward tunes… but overall, the band is built upon virtuosic talent, and I think they would be foolish to waste their skills on pure simplicity. Either way, you dont HAVE to listen to them… and you dont have to bash or label them either.
To say that DT is just compromised of soloing and long complex arrangements is a pretty ignorant thing to say. They cover such a large spectrum of music that even calling them prog metal is unjust. If you want verse, chorus, vere chorus songs you can find plenty within their catalogue; just as you can find 20 minute long epics ranging from sounding like Megadeth to sounding like early Genesis.
And to say “Pardon our hubris, but we don’t see Fuse, VH1 or BET giving such love to Dream Theater.” is just irrelavent. Dream Theater has survived in the underground without mtv support through mostly their whole career. (by the way, VH1 classic does play “Pull Me Under” and clips from the live DVD “Score”)
Youre entitled to your opinion and entitled to dislike the band, but to ever imply any sort of musical shortcomings is just ignorant, even if you dont prefer the music the produce
I can see why you’d beg to differ about Constant Motion getting #2. As far as songs go it’s probably not the best song out there (awesome solo section though), and the video is pretty shitty. It’s nowhere near as good as much of Dream Theater’s earlier material that I wish MTV would have looked at…
However, I guess the extremely rabid Dream Theater fans spoke…how did Mushroomhead win though? I didn’t think anybody listened to Mushroomhead to be honest
The intelligent, sophisticated, logical and well-argued points that have been made here give me hope that there is still a fragment of the musical fanbase out there that hasn’t ingested the commercial effluent that MTV propagates on a daily basis. Dream Theater are innovators of a genre (some people here clearly disagree, but I respect that because you’ve made solid arguments, and you’ve made some good points). And I suppose its to be expected that a clearly conflicted HBB columnist can’t quite escape the instinctual dislike for an unimaginably talented, passionate and articulate band that has relied on the dedication of their fans and sheer love for musical aestheticism instead of listening to some business graduate in a suit. Its kind of amusing also that these industry types hide behind their ignorance for the progressive genre by citing supposed musical / editorial ‘credentials’ and predictable outcries that go hand in hand with the profiteering music industry (’but I helped get them where they are today by getting my superiors to release the music video! Without MTV’s support the band YOU like wouldn’t be where they are today! ‘- doesn’t sound a thing at all like emotional blackmail to me…but its symptomatic of the way that music ‘professionals’ like this columnist think).
Maybe that was a little heated, but it makes me angry and amused at the same time when MTV try to facilitate ratings for their programs by taking a foray into progressive and innovative musicianship that they clearly don’t intend to understand or appreciate fully, past the extent that they can profiteer off it. Dream Theater’s beautiful, melodic, diverse and conceptually flawless music has been an inspiration throughout my life, and the countless lives of other fans and people I’ve met… and while seeing a column like this irritates me, the responses its provoked have been wonderful to read. =] Its so refreshing and awe-inspiring to see that good music can still flourish in the world today. As tim-may put it, ‘Dream Theater is an island in “The Sea of Sellouts”’.
As a musician…. what is the point of NOT being self indulgent? Why would you want to play something over and over if you didn’t like it, and it wasn’t challenging?
It’s just that challenging to Dream Theater is different than Challenging to another band with average music skills.
I love Dream Theater, and i was surprised to se DT on MTV:p Everythime i watch mtv theres either Metal or Trance/Rap/Pop, i like that to but nothing beats Dream Theater
Well regarding the corporate pressure issue, Atlantic and Elektra have more pressure than RoadRunner. But the thing is wanting to exercise that pressure. And clearly Atlantic and Elektra were happy with the way things were with DT: selling well with no work involved for them. I’m currently negociating a record deal, and have found that it’s better to have a smaller lobby with a bigger will, than a big lobby with a small will.
As for the whole technique, virtuoso, complex songs subject I personally think that is absolute crap. I think that most of the audience will listen to whatever it’s fed, as long as it is promoted in the correct way. And I think that is DT’s major fault unitl now: they were never promoted by professionals. To some extent that is the band’s fault too, because Mister OCD (Mike Portnoy to non-fans) is a control freak. I love the way he directs the band musically, but he should be aware that there are professionals to lead the band in other areas, like marketing.
Anyway Mr. Editor, I love the way you market this blog… You could probably give DT a hand
WHOOPS most of the less intelligent commentary was in a proceeding thread about the video being voted #2. Still I stand by my commentary
This is not intended to take a shot at anyone involved in this discussion, it is just a personal point of view. Please note the absence of the word “we”.
Dream Theater is not for everyone, just as Slayer is not for everyone. The real point of Progressive Metal/Rock or progressive in general is to attempt to PROGRESS the state of music through new and amazing arrangements, virtuoso musicianship and incredible story telling in a rock opera form. Dream Theaters fans are no more on the Defense of the Dream then any other “rabid” fans. In most cases they just put forth a more intelligent and compelling issue then say a prepubescent fan of some pre-packaged pop princess.(uh like no way, like yeah huh) At least I had hoped that was the case in this matter. I am embarrassed for some of the people making commentary on this issue. I would expect such rapier wit on the street corner down by the grade school not anywhere in a thread discussing what Dream Theater fans find as outstanding points of the music they so enthusiastically enjoy. So in my point of view, it is not an issue with me if you do not like, understand or care for Dream Theater, it leaves me better seats when they come to town. The real facts are not many bands in the genre have been able to achieve such success let alone for the extended period of time that they have. In this world of one hit wonders and American Idols, Dream Theater is an island in “The Sea of Sellouts”. They stick to what they want to write and perform, not to what the label tells them, not to appease the fans (although it seems to be working) and most certainly not writing “To Get Paid”. And most importantly to me, they actually studied music theory. I hear so many people complaining that the arts are being taken out of school curriculums, programs such as art and MUSIC. Here is a group that actually went to prestigious institutes of higher learning like Berklee and Juilliard, such accomplishments and dedication should be commended in this day and age, like their music or not. In closing I am not attacking the original point of “I’m surprised that HBB viewers voted the band’s last video “Constant Motion” as the second best of the year.” Nor am I attacking anyone that has responded in kind (or not so kind) I am just expressing myself and why I am a Dream Theater fan.
This article doesn’t really help answer the question of genius vs. crap. I was hoping for a true musically-based objective dissection of their work both in and out of the prog-rock context.
Dream Theater is an enigma. Their music is not conventional, and yet they follow certain music conventions. (for example: chorus, verse, verse, chorus; or the simple fact that they do ballads)
I don’t care that they endlessly solo, or create compositions that are ambitious and sometimes overly long, or that the lyrical and musical themes are bland and obvious at times. The problem is the combination of these elements. Some of their songs are really solid. Other times, it seems like there are too many captains and not enough deck hands. The songs suffer as a result. Does every song need a keyboard solo? Or a guitar solo for that matter? Some bands in PROGRESSIVE rock have opted to forgo these prog conventions, in order to serve the song.
Dream Theater hasn’t innovated enough to be called genius, but HAS put in the quality enough to not be called crap.
As an avid Dream Theater fan I must put in my 2 cents worth, first of all saying things like “we will subject you to” in reference to Petrucci’s explanation of the song and saying you disagree with them being voted as the second best video of 07 is your own will and I respect that. However lumping Dream Theater into a class with System of A Down is compairing apples to oranges there bud. It is great you advocated for Dream Theater to get on air, especially since that advocation happened to coincide with them now being on a major record label that has a little bit of pull in the market. I didn’t see you jumping to their side when they released Metropolis pt2. Let’s face it, MTV’s headbangers ball would rather play bands that wear all black and scream bloody murder all the time then show love to bands like Opeth and Symphony X and Into Eternity that actually have some musical ability and have become well versed in song structure and other aspects of music. But let’s face it, before MTV played constant motion, before systematic chaos was released, before DT signed with roadrunner……they were the biggest and best Progressive Rock group in the world, and they did it without MTV.
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Actually we’ve shown a lot of love to Symphony X lately and we’re huge fans of Opeth. We like Into Eternity, too. And correct us if we’re wrong, but Dream Theater were on major labels for most of their career, and clearly Atlantic and Elektra have more corporate influence than Roadrunner. — Ed, HBB Blog.
I think morneblade said it very well. Dream Theater shouldn’t have to cater to the stupidity of the masses, making their songs “simpler”. There are planty of bands that play simple music, go listen to them. Let us listen to people whoo have busted their asses to learn to play their instrments at a higher level than most. Some people respect that aspect of music. That said, I do respect the editor of the blog and he/she obviously has a very broad liking of music and there’s nothing wrong with having an open mind. I see nothing malicious in his comments and his opinion is worth just as much as anybody else’s, so nobody really has the right to complain about it.
Oh, and I have one last thing to say for “Mr. I know what art is” If you think Dream Theater is a bunch of wankers why don’t you go check out some Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov you idiot. I bet you don’t even know who Kurt Rosenwinkel is do you? YOU KNOW ART list some $**##%$ art. Dream Theater are way out of your intellectual league.
Pretty poorly written column there. With bands you named as “progressive”, it’s painfully obvious you wouldn’t know “progressive” if it hit you with a 2×4. And showing 2 videos in the past 15 years doesn’t make you guys a hotbead for DT or on a larger scale, Prog Rock support. In all reality most of the “music” on MTV by defintion, isnt even music. However I’ll be honest, Dream Theater is never going to be a mainstream band. Mostly because of the level of musical knowledge in this country is practically non-exsistent. Write a simple book for simple people. The vast majority of people have no clue about music, and as such all they are going to be able to handle is something very simple. Kinda like a childrens’ book. DT goes after the 2% that have their “Masters Degree”(metaphoically speaking) in music, stuff that the “typical” listen just can’t fathom. Which is sad in a way, but not unexpected. If language is similar to music, you guys will play what sells. And what sells is trash Romance Novels and material on a 9th grade reading level. Comercial garbage that is all flash and no substance, and the target market’s musical IQ at about a 1st grade level. Stuff with the depth of a shallow mud puddle. DT will write for the people that have their docorates. I”m fine with that.
“We’ve gotta say we were a bit surprised of comment we made”?… That’s not “we” that’s you(mr self-indulgent).At least have the balls…be a man about it!…”We(I) didn’t really insult dream theater(yes you did and that was your intent)Don’t let “HB” cover your ass because you don’t care for dream theater!… “There are others who feel the group’s endless soloing is self-indulgent, and that its complex arrangements don’t hold together as well”…(Again,that would be you!!!)..”That said, we’ll continue to support Dream Theater as a valid force in hard rock/metal”…(That would be “HB” covering your ass!!!!)
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(Sigh) Okay, Mr. petty and defensive, the “we” form used for HBB Blog posts is in no way, shape or form an effort to hide behind anything. It’s merely a standard editorial format used in many magazines as well as Web sites. And while you — and the army of Dream Theater supporters who have chimed in — clearly feel I’m abusing to the masters of prog-rock, I’m actually far more interested in playing the devil’s advocate and sparking a bit of controversy and conversation. Obviously, there are tons of Dream Theater fans who have valid reasons for adoring the band, and of course there are folks out there who think the group is boring and self-indulgent. I am neither. I was a big fan of their early material, then they kind of lost me, but I certainly appreciate their musical gifts and the connection they have with their fans. And my lack of continued devotion is not because I’m underground or mainstream or oblivious to the magic of prog-rock. I have great fondness for a multitude of musically complex and/or experimental artists including: Radiohead, Yes, Protest the Hero, Pink Floyd, Horse! The Band, Captain Beefheart, Faust, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Today is the Day, Neu!, Frank Zappa, King Crimson, Rush. The list goes on and on. By the way, HB doesn’t cover my ass. In fact, I played a major role in getting Dream Theater on air. But, to reiterate, I’m surprised that HBB viewers voted the band’s last video “Constant Motion” as the second best of the year. The new video is pretty good and will continue to receive airtime, however, come year’s end, I doubt that it will warrant the number two slot, either. On another note, feel free to send more hate mail or refute any of my arguments. A blog is only as worthy as the community that reads it, and healthy communication benefits everyone involved. — Editor, HBB Blog.
Self-indulgent?Is it the fact that they “stick” to their guns(so to speak)and don’t give in and or don’t give a crap about pleasing the record companies and doing what they want to for over 20 years?..and not to mention that they are collectively the most talented band to ever play? What has dream theater done?? Well let’s look back at early progressive music..shall we? Pink Floyd,Rush,old Genesis,Yes,Jethro Tull.Basically what Dream Theater has done is take it to another level(heavier..which most of us alredy know..anyone that knows music)Do you honestly believe that anyone in this “headbangers Ball 2″ generation gives a crap about Pink Floyd,Yes,Jethro Tull??? There is probably a small % of that group that does..but for most of them..they don’t.Majority of the music on headbangers ball 2 is heavy guitars,heavy constant riffs,and deep scratching heavy vocals that you cannot understand!Don’t get me wrong..alot of those bands are very talented..and I can respect that!My point is.. that you(mr self-indulgent)are a fan of “headbangers ball 2″ music(generally speaking). The fact of the matter is that you never really cared for Dream Theater music to begin with!That and the fact that they were voted #2 on your precious “Headbangers Ball 2″ video of the year award!Dream Theater is not about pleasing critics(such as yourself)or the record labels,or being the most popular band!Alot of their song are long(not boring or monotnous)because that’s who they are,and that’s what they like to do(do you honestly believe they wrote”change of seasons” for the sole purpose of having a 23 minute song?)..Why don’t you ask any well-respected band that’s been around for a while what their opinion of Dream Theater is? If you don’t like them..that’s your opinion..but give them their respect they deserve!!! I think the only thing self-indulged here is you and that statement!!
Just for a laugh everyone should scroll up and look at Mike’s post. The column writer got so offended he or she had to leave a reply lol. Looks like someone has ego issues, but to get on a serious note I watch MTV all day long to find great bands. That’s why I own all of Kelly Clarkson’s CDs. DT can never hold up to Avril Lavigne’s amaaaazing musicianship (or any grind core band for that matter =\ )….NOT
Right, lets get things straight here.
People may either lvoe or hate Dream Theater that is fair enough. I personally love them, but even if you don’t you should respect the fact that they are talented musicians and they are writing music to please themselves not fans like modern music. Why do you think Petrucci and Portnoy produced all their albums since 1999? Because the record company almost drove out Portnoy and Myung in 1997 with their Falling into Infinity album because they started to take liberties with them, so I think that deserves another level of respect as they managed to stick together and found out something which works best for the band.
Also if you have ever been to a Dream Theater show or seen any of their shows you will see the passion they have for their audience. They thank every single person who walks into the door coninutously throughout each show. I have also met John Petrucci and he is such a friendly guy. He even told a security guard to mind his own business when I moved around the back of the singing table with him for a photo!
Also another thing you could respect them for, how many bands do you know would put the names of fans into their biography?
And again if this doesnt change your opinion, at least Dream Theater do not have a cheap nasty guitar tones like the likes of the Arctic Donkies, and at least the basslines, drum tracks and vocals arent the same for every single song like RazorPap!
Also you think Petrucci only shreds….hahaha thats quite funny I think out of about 100 Dream Theater tracks I think there are only about 30 songs which he shreds on! And those tracks all have come within the last 6-7 years!!! If you want to hear some real genius guitar playing which doesnt involved shreddding, check out the band’s Images and Words album, the tracks Another Day, Take the Time, Under a Glass Moon, Learning to Live, all have amazing solos. Also on later albums you have Hollow Years, you have the live version of Hollow Years from Live at Budokan which has a reworked electric guitar solo as opposed to acoustic solo and that is completely mind blowing, they are to name a few!!
At the end of the day at least these guys use more than just the usual major and minor open chords. And the fact that EVERY album is different! And they still retain their fan base. I mean I personally think their passed two albums, Octavarium and Systematic Chaos are very poor by their standards, it still hasn’t turned me away from them because I know how good they actually are because of their previous albums such as Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulance. Where if the likes of The Hoosies released a poor album next I can guarentee they would lose their fan base!!!!!!!
So whether you love them or hate them you have to have repect for the fact these guys are well cultured, well educated, very reactive and all round nice guys! And they are trying to push music into new dimensions whether it is 70’s progressive rock, progressive metal or simply pop orientated, they are the ultimate band who can play anything you can think of and that includes classical music, just check out Overture from their Six Degrees of Inner Turbulance album, you will be amazed as that album has everything on it and portrays the bands musical interests and abilities very very clearly.
So please, do not insult a band when you have not heared their complete discography as this truely defines Dream Theater!!
Thank you, and over and out!
I used to really love dream theater… I did a meet and greet with them back in 04, and I’ve been to 8 of their concerts since 02. I’ve found that their most recent crop of songs have grown a bit weary on me… I’m not nearly as into them as I once was. But to call them self-indulgent pieces of crap?? Really? How is this any different than Yngwie Malmsteem or Dragonforce or most of the bands that just shred shred shred? I don’t understand it. Dream Theater really helped usher in progressive rock (Obviously bands like pink floyd and Rush were a little more influential) and I couldn’t disagree with you more. I just wish they’d go back to more of a Six Degrees and earlier style. rip on Falling into infinity as much as you want… but Hell’s Kitchen/Lines in the Sand is a great way to spend 17 minutes of your life.
Dream Theater is a band out there where every member is extremely good at their respective instruments, and they can make music accordingly. If playing what you can play well is self indulgent, than every band to exist is self indulgent.
The bottom line is this, you don’t label a band that has survived for over 20 years, with little help from the radio and MTV, basically surviving from the loyalties of their own fan base, as being self-indulgent crap. It’s not even an option. Crap doesn’t have a life span of over 20 years, and where would the logic be if it did? It’s apparent that you know very little about Dream Theater, and the progressive metal genre for that matter (half the bands you listed aren’t even prog metal). I would stick to typing articles about screamo, grindcore, and power metal if I were you; let the viewers decide on what is and isn’t crap.
I used to be a fan.. Then falling into infinity came out and I noticed they were using outside songwriters to help them have “hits”. So that’s where they lost credit in my eyes. I could care less if they pander to their fanbase and write sequals to metropolis or try to out-prog everybody else out there. After that it was obviously just them trying too hard.
I aggree with a lot of your points but SOAD is nothing like prog metal at all. Also while you guys do promote some good bands you often focus too much on bands that are “brutal.” I have not read anything on this site that is negative towards a grindcore band but you constantly criticize power metal. I don’t understand while you are so dismissive of Symphony X; they are great and unique band. Even as person who listens almost exclusively to metal I do not think heaviness is the only barometer of excellence. You guys should give more press to good bands in less heavy genres such as progressive or power metal. Genre in and of itself does not determine how good a band is. A derivative, unoriginal grindcore band is just as cliched and silly as a unoriginal power metal band.
Sorry for being unable to put the proper accent in cliched.
I am not a huge fan of Dream Theater but many of my friends are so I hear it a lot, all of it. Some of it is a bit over the top, but that is if you are stupid, or ignorant enough to not give their albums a full listen. Every album they have done has heavy sides and more ballad-esque sides. To say they are self-indulged because they earn their pay unlike the $#$~ bands the mainstream is producing (a couple metal bands exempt), is plain ignorance. I guess I shouldn’t have expected common sense or plain TRUE MUSICAL APPRECIATION from the likes of MTV.
May MTV burn to the ground and end this terrible era of music. One can wish yeah?
Ryan says; “name one band more devoted to their fans.”
um… i think theres this little band from london….theyre really small but they’ve been really fan based for hm…over 30 yrs….. whats their name?? steel,,eh,gold,,eh iron? yeah thats it Iron Maiden,,, yeah thats it…
oh yeah , and dream theater are a great band , and i do remember mtv actually giving their video for “pull me under” daily rotation back in the early 90’s,,,,so yeah they did give them a bit of airtime…..and eventhough i think they are a great band and am a musician myself into very progressive bands such as The Dillinger Escape Plan and Dt future tourmates Between The Buried and Me… Dream Theater can get a bit monotinous and almost genericly complex…(made sense in my head at least) but still an amzingly talented and trailblazing band
It’s funny how a show from MTV(who once named Curt Cobain “Man Of The Year”) have a dig at such a musically tallented band such as Dream Theater.
And I forgot to mention that not only do they do a lot of charity work through auctions of band related things, Many of the band members do a lot of demo workshops teaching most of the new musical equipment for artists. As well as doing side projects with various artists, while exploring various styles such as LaBrie doing a tenor’s album. I’m done, if Headbangers Ball and MTV for that matter, can’t see the genius of Dream Theater, then let them be ignorant and continue to support Dream Theater the way they’ve been making it for the last 22 years, dedicated and loyal fans attending the plethora of concerts they hold each year.
Since everyone above has made some excellent points, the one nobody has made is that unlike mainstream (i.e. MTV, VH1, BET) music media source “artists”, Dream Theater respects the art of music by sharing it with others. To be more precise approximately, the USA, South America, Australia, Europe, China, Japan, etc… talk to any Dream Theater fan and they’ll tell you that DT is always on a world tour, or releasing cd’s. They dont play 6 singles on the radio (partly because of mass conglomerate marketing) but instead they release the album, world tour, tour more, make cds, world tour… name one band more devoted to their fans.
You see this is why bands with true talent can’t make it in this country because you have “experts” who say that bands like Dream Theater is nothing but self indulgent crap. Geez, if I had 1/16th of the talent Dream Theater has I would show it off too. I have found that many of the fans feel that Dream Theater didn’t even need to make a video. Even though they did, I think it is an awesome video, granted it was cut way too short to truly show the bands abilities. But getting back to my main point, this is why America’s musical tastes are diluted because you have channels like MTV, VH1, and BET telling people what is “good”. You go to Europe or Asia, and you will find that a lot of fans will wait days for tickets and will kill for them as well. You will also find that Dream Theater will fill arenas the size of the Super-Dome. There are so many excellent metal bands in America but you never hear of it. Granted the ones you “experts” mentioned are good as well, but there are also bands, not necessarily in the progressive category, but bands like Kamelot, Lamb of God, and Watchtower. That is excellent metal. But you have you’re tastes and I can respect that. Just stop degrading bands like the afore mentioned who have more talent than MOST main-stream hard rock and metal.
“One thing’s for sure, those Dream Theater followers sure take their role as defenders of the Dream seriously.”
More like defenders of REAL music, you’re not fooling anyone.
And it’s just sickening to see a dinky column writer with a mediocre-at-best resume, who has the balls to even question a band like Dream Theater, a group of talented musicians with over 20 years worth of value to show for their resume. As someone with a strong appreciation for art, I’m offended on so many levels right now, I’m just glad that I stopped watching MTV over 10 years ago. Corporate trash. I’m surprised with all the innovation flying around that no one has innovated the music industry yet.
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This “dinky” column writer has been in the music industry as long as Dream Theater has been making music and has written for many of the biggest music magazines in the U.S. and UK. You show us your stinky resume, we’ll show you ours. — Ed., HBB Blog
“Even some fans of progressive metal groups such as[…]System of a Down”
This is where your argument fails miserably; you have the intellect to tell whether a band like Dream Theater would be considered to be self-indulgent crap, yet you can’t even organize a band like System of a Down into the correct genre?
“…will argue that there’s a big difference between experimentation and narcissistic showmanship, and that true musical revelation comes from an emphasis on art, not virtuosity.”
And now you’re going to tell me that music comes from an emphasis on art? Well, not you personally, but the fans from highly acclaimed Progressive Metal geniuses like System of a Down, am I right? Sorry, but I listen to self-indulged crap like Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa, and Rush, so I obviously had no idea that music comes from art.
This is a joke, a show like Headbanger’s Ball has absolutely zero perception of what art is. The whole concept of a headbanger is to bob your head back and forth to simplistic riffs being repeated over and over, which is basically the concept of this show as well; so go ahead and make your poor arguments because you’re credibility is far too weak to make an impression on me. This is an era of crap music, so go on back to your crap manufacturing agenda.
“While Dream Theater’s legions obviously covet their favorite band above their own families, there are others who feel the group’s endless soloing is self-indulgent, and that its complex arrangements don’t hold together as well as simple, well-crafted songs.”
I can see this more as an statement from people with short attention spans. I’d also like to see the criteria by which you classify a song as “well crafted”
“Also, while Dream Theater’s songs obviously contain melodies, some argue that the emphasis on musicianship detracts from the tunefulness of the material.”
Emphasis on musicianship, sorry, but I thought we were listening to Music?
“Even some fans of progressive metal groups such as Opeth, Mars Volta, Protest the Hero and System of a Down will argue that there’s a big difference between experimentation and narcissistic showmanship, and that true musical revelation comes from an emphasis on art, not virtuosity.”
Once again, your criteria for what is considered Art would be most appreciated. Sorry, but I beg to differ on your beg to differ myself. I mean, what exactly do people consider art these days? Making funny lyrics? Mashing on a set of power chords for two minutes straight? Screaming your lungs out? Crying out how much life sucks and you are misunderstood? A drummer having a double bass pedal? Abusing the A-B-A-B-A song format? (sorry I went a little technical there). Most of the stuff we are forced to listen to on the radio and the street is a total piece of crap, and I can hardly agree their “Art” is worth a damn, but like you wrote: “Hey, it’s a free country - for now.”
Fact: Dream Theater are an extremely diverse band. The perception that all they do is shred is totally untrue - that’s one part of their music that they’re able to do. From personal experience I think they emphasize songwriting and emotions a lot more than other progressive metal bands do, whilst still being able to outplay all of them.
I’ll give it to you on calling out the fans for going crazy over what they perceived as an insult on DT. However, I’d hardly call them self-indulgent crap, and most importantly, I’d hardly classify System of a Down as progressive metal. Repetitious, exotic-influenced punk-metal maybe, but prog metal? Hell no.
Also, you’re argument is solid, except you mention some horrible bands. Yeah, it’d be a mistake to disregard Slayer, but seriously, who gives a crap about Killswitch Engage? Not anybody worth it.
self indulgent crap, hands down.